In this episode Saifedean talks to Nik Bhatia, author of Layered Money. They begin by discussing Nik’s first essays on bitcoin, The Time Value of Bitcoin and The Lightning Network Reference Rate, and why Nik thinks “Lightning banks” are on their way. They move on to talk about Nik’s book, starting with an overview of how “layered money” developed on top of gold through financial institutions, and how this eventually culminated in the emergence of a pure fiat financial system. Nik and Saifedean also discuss money as it exists today, including the role of central banks and the eurodollar system. They end with a discussion of what the financial system of the future will look like, including why Nik is confident that both bitcoin and the US dollar will continue to exist throughout his lifetime, and why we should be concerned about the rise of CBDCs.